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AlanRoe
30-07-2001, 22:30
I dont intend to comment too much on this all I ask you all to do is to have a look at what this daft moo has written and respond appropriatly in their feedback section.
I know that I can rely on you all.
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/dt?ac=005661994855569&rtmo=axppe8NL&atmo=rrr>http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/dt?ac=005661994855569&rtmo=axppe8NL&atmo=rrr</A>
Cheers
Alan

Cheers
Alan<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by IanWelch on 30/07/01 10:46 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

PaulO
31-07-2001, 11:25
Everyone should read this article - it shows just what we are up against, apart from our own apathy!

For the record the url of the article itself is :

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/dt?ac=005667042255560&rtmo=a544TWXJ&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/01/7/30/do02.html>http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/dt?ac=005667042255560&rtmo=a544TWXJ&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/01/7/30/do02.html</A>

The other address is for Monday's frontpage.

paul_scarface
31-07-2001, 11:53
the only trouble is that they are a very organised bunch of fanatics and f...ups, i mean who else would go around releasing hundreds of stoats and mink into an enviroment where existing wildlife is already under serious threat... real genius ! what do you do though if u see these people on RMC property and is it trespass??

fatboy
31-07-2001, 13:05
Well the author of the piece seems to be an out-and-out sympathiser, so giving a biased viewpoint. It would be nice for a counter-argument to be published.

However, PaulO used one word in his message which just about sums up the current situation - APATHY.

When in gods name will some of these fishing organisations start banging heads together, and get the small "splinter" groups to work together and get our house in order. How can we mount a concerted response to this threat (and yes it is a threat) when we have groups arguing the toss about livebating, fishing for imports, what we should do with cormorants etc..? Yes they are important issues in their own right, but they are pitching angler vs angler.

At the end of the day 99.9% of anglers care for the environment and act as the eye and ears for such organisations as the EA, but do the general public know this; do they have the vaguest idea of the value we bring ? NO.

Now we are fighting a very emotive point here - the hooking of fish - probably the only thing that all us anglers have in common with each other. I dont know whether fish feel pain, I am not a marine biologist, but from what I have read, there is not a definitive YES/NO answer. Even if there was, how much difference would it make? Organisations like PETA will use shock tactics, images, even lift text from websites to ensure angling is dragged through the mud by highlighting what a "bunch of savages" we really are and the damage we do. Hooks hanging from the beaks of waterfowl, illegal culling of cormorants, abuse of the general public and of each other. They would have a field day!!!

So, please somehow we need to pull together and get momentum behind angling, before it is too late, and start to speak up for ourselves.

Sorry about the rant, and yes most if not all of these things have been said before, but some things about angling really hack me off. And I thought that we were meant to enjoy it!!

PaulO
31-07-2001, 13:22
Also checkout the TalkSport website :

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.talksport.net/>http://www.talksport.net/</A>

They had an extremely informed ( not! ) debate on the breakfast show this morning where the usual rubbish was spouted. Look at the current results of the poll and vote!

NO MORE APATHY !!!!

fatboy
31-07-2001, 14:02
Come on you lot we are 52% 48% behind - Get Voting.

benzonar
31-07-2001, 14:10
Well I've just taken it from 51-48 to 57-43.

Once you've voted hit your back button and if you just keep repeating this then you can vote as many times as you want to.

Sorry if this seems childish but the PR war has begun.

PaulO
31-07-2001, 14:10
We are now 55% - 45% ahead - but keep voting !!!

G_CHILD
31-07-2001, 14:23
Seriousley people u need to vote i know it is only 1 pole but that fat b*st*rd porky whatever looks like and probo is a complete mis informed get on the band wagon piece of ****
i have voted so if i can work out how to vote so can all of u..this is the sport we all cherish so dearly and for many of us it is our lives..so come on people have your say.

G_CHILD
HOODED PRIEST

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by CarponlineEditor on 31/07/01 06:01 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

Johnny_Carp
31-07-2001, 14:38
we look very much in the lead.....
however, the percentage doesnt go up...ive voted 4times and we have no increase!!!!
the current results are....US 61% ... THEM 39%
that porkys fingers must be so fat, he cant even type PAIN properly on his keypad!
JC

Johnny_Carp
31-07-2001, 14:40
It works again now, my votes have increased....

Rich
31-07-2001, 14:45
Just voted about 10 times and it increased by 1 point
Lets try and get it 90/10 that'll be a good start

benzonar
31-07-2001, 14:48
It also helps if you disable cookies in your browser, as this helps with voting multiple times.

Bovis
31-07-2001, 15:43
Just helped to get it down to 78 US 22 them.
Keep the multiple voting going peeps.

Bovis
Hooded & 100% English Priest

Paulm
31-07-2001, 15:45
Been at it for 10 mins now......

come - on guys keep it going!!

____________________
The Truth Is Out There!

G_CHILD
31-07-2001, 16:19
no i can look at that pr*ck porky no more....ripping his throat out and playing tennis with his tonsils ..now that i could handle..he has the most punishable face ever.what a muppet.

G_CHILD
HOODED PRIEST

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by CarponlineEditor on 31/07/01 06:03 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

TONYM
31-07-2001, 16:28
here here
gotta stop now, work to do, keep up the good work guys
laters
TonyM

Bill
31-07-2001, 16:47
Alright chaps
Don't know if I'm doing something wrong but Ive been voting non stop for 20 mins (sad but I want to still fish when I retire) and it hasnt changed at all 77-23.

paul_scarface
31-07-2001, 18:28
got a bit lost in the site and found the sports babe !!!!
got to go and arrange me tackle ....................

rhornegold
01-08-2001, 08:25
Checked it this morning,
YES 23%

NO 77%

I think angling won this one.
Bob

PaulO
01-08-2001, 09:52
Well done everyone!! See what we can do if we try!!!!!!!!!

PaulO
01-08-2001, 16:09
Seventy nine percent of talkSPORT listeners disagreed with Mr Parry`s view that "Anglers should admit that fishing is barbaric, because fish suffer pain". A staggering 124,413 votes were counted

Copied from the TalkSport website today.

benzonar
01-08-2001, 17:12
I reckon a couple of hundred of them were mine. It's amazing what a little organisation can do.
However it still means we had over 26,000 votes agreeing with his fatness. However the anti's were probably doing what we were with mass voting, however they weren't good enough

paulh
01-08-2001, 19:42
Well done lads, only just read this thread so was unable to vote.
But I think the trouble is , if peta and co shout loud enough for long enough, and we anglers dont put up a credible defence, then people , will, start to believe them.
Only yesterday an elderly customer of mine [knowing I'm an angler] remarked ; "I see they're starting on you anglers now"
I feel anglers must somehow try and counter these attacks.


/images/forum/icons/cool.gif /images/forum/icons/cool.gif
paulh

AlanRoe
02-08-2001, 10:40
Please don't fall into the trap of trying to defend angling....To do this is foolhardiness...angling does not need defending..
Instead you need to go for the throat of Peta and its hanger- on organisations such as the Hunt Sabotuers and the League Against Cruel Sports.
Peta in particular has a lot of unnacceptable issues hiding in its cubboards notably its links with terrorist groups like the ALA& ALF et al.
More to the point dont waste your time venting your anger by preaching to the converted on angling websites.
Bombard your local press letters colum with anti Peta letters.
his will do far more good as the National press read the local press letter pages looking for stories.
Happy Hunting
Cheers
Alan

Cheers
Alan

G_CHILD
02-08-2001, 12:49
how do we find out about peta though..i mean the gritty information..cuz the last thing u want is some geezer trying to defend angling but spouting out a load of bollox that he has just heard on the grapevine.mis informed anglers writting in could do more harm than good.so how do we find out more about this organisation..

G_CHILD
THE PRIEST

DanCleary
02-08-2001, 13:22
http://www.nofishing.net (http://www.peta-online.org>http://www.peta-online.org</A>

and)
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.fishinghurts.com>http://www.fishinghurts.com</A> (same website)

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by scorpio on 02/08/01 11:40 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

benzonar
02-08-2001, 13:32
Or try this one

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Anti-PETA> Anti-PETA </A>

You will have to join this group to have access to any info though.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.angelfire.com/in/xinfernos/PETA.html> OR This </A>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by benzonar on 02/08/01 01:41 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

TONYM
03-08-2001, 23:09
loved the T-shirts,if u get any Ian i'll have one,if not i'll order direct.great site very informative.
TonyM

Rivercarper
04-08-2001, 06:03
Nice one Bill love those shirts.

AlanRoe
09-08-2001, 15:37
This a copy of a letter that I had to send to the Manchester Evening news after they had printed a anti angling article.
Note the lack of reference to angling. Feel free to use this letter or part of it when writing to your local papers. Don't worry about the use of emotive language that is used in it as Peta use the same sort of terms to describe us!!
Cheers
Alan

Dear Sir

Once again the silly season seems to have started and this year it appears that angling is to be the target. Such a move was rather inevitable once the hunting issue has apparently been dealt with.

It is a sad fact that there is a whole industry that been built up around animal ‘banitittis’ with significant numbers of people having built their reputations up on the backs of these campaigns and who are making a very good living out of it.

So lets get real these people are not going to give up their large salaries just because hunting looks doomed in this country at least.

There are several of these groups the primary protagonist at the moment appears to be Peta who are a shadowy bunch of vegan fascists who have proven to be highly skilled at parting neurotic actresses and popstars from their money and have as a result amassed a reasonable fortune. They are also highly litigious. Notably they are not a charity they are in fact registered as a business and doubtless their senior employees are drawing corporate salaries.

Thankfully in the case of Peta this group contains within their pronouncements the seeds of their own destruction
This group openly supports Violence and a visit to their website shows that they are open backers of the ALA and ALF these cuddly terrorists who make and deliver bombs that are sent to maim and kill innocent people. Children have been injured by the mail bombs sent out by animal rights terrorists. The most recent example is the 6 year old who was injured in a mail bomb attack a few months ago here in the North west.
Peta states they would force people to give up their pets. That's right your dog ,cat horse fish. Ask the question ‘Do we want a society run by Vegan fascists who would kick your door in to see if you have a pet cat in the house’?.

Peta recently stated that they that they would like to see Foot and Mouth disease imported into the USA to ‘punish farmers’ there.

What kind of minds do these people have? For all their attempts at putting on a cuddly front by using attractive young women to try to put over their anti angling message they are anything but nice people the kind of world that they wish to dominate by force and terror is not one that I would wish to live in nor do I suspect would most animals .....Those that are left that is.

They are skilled propagandists and will stop at nothing including the use of wholly fictitious 'Scientific' evidence to try and sway public opinion it is time that this organisation is shown up for what it is.

Yours Sincerely







Cheers
Alan

BillP
09-08-2001, 22:24
Good Job! Very well written.

Tom
10-08-2001, 00:42
Excellent letter Alan - has it been published yet?

Tom

AlanRoe
10-08-2001, 15:06
A minor Victory Chaps!!!!!
The Manchester Evening news have contacted me this morning following the recipt of that letter and asked me to do an 850 word article on the positives of angling.
What sort of things would you like to see put in it?

Cheers
Alan

Smarts
10-08-2001, 15:21
Excellent Alan!

Positives must include the enviroment and wildlife etc.....Because the odd waterfowl does get hurt by the careless idiots, we really should show how much we care for, and appreciate the wildlife.
We are normally the link between pollution and distress and those in authority.

[b]Smarts

Bovis
10-08-2001, 16:10
Good news son,
Make sure you put a copy on the website when its done as I aint got access to The MEN.
Well done
Bove

Bovis
Hooded & 100% English Priest

AlanRoe
15-08-2001, 23:48
Right chaps the article is written and will be getting posted to the MEN tomorrow I will ensure that those of you who are interested will have access to it.
Ian do you want me to e-mail it to you or are you happy for me to copy and paste it on to the forum.
it is a short piece at 850 words.
Cheers
Alan

Cheers
Alan

AlanRoe
16-08-2001, 16:19
I have spoken to the deputy editor of the MEN this morning they plan to publish the article either next Monday or the one following. In fairness to them I feel that it would be appropriate to post it on the day after publication.

Cheers
Alan

MikeLyddon053698
16-08-2001, 17:14
Well done Alan, you do us all proud.
Ian, can I be the first to nominate Alan for thread of the month, he certainly deserves it.

Mike

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by MikeLyddon053698 on 16/08/01 05:16 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

AlanRoe
20-08-2001, 17:43
As promised Gentlemen with thanks to all that responded this appeared in Tonights Manchester Evening News.



Angling Does Far more Good Than Harm.



Recently angling has become the target of certain groups who want to enforce their minority view on others. These anti-angling factions have no agenda other than to get many aspects of our national life and pastimes banned, with no clear programme for the future protection of the aquatic environment.


I started angling in my childhood beginning at the age of eight years, I have always had a fascination of the world that existed under the surface of the water and the fish that swam beneath. Some thirty-nine years on I still have that fascination.


Throughout my fishing years I have visited ponds, lakes, rivers and the sea that surrounds us all.


As a young man I carried with me the rebelliousness that comes with youth and carried the potential for latent aggression and anger that many young men feel. During these years my passion for angling kept me out of trouble by providing a positive focus for my spare time. I did not feel the need to spend my time hanging around street corners and cause mayhem.


Through angling I am able to cope with my very busy daily life. All of us will recognise that life is increasingly stressful and there is a real need to create beauty and peace within our existence.


When I go fishing I count myself fortunate that I am able to go into some of the most beautiful places that our region has to offer.


For my company I have the friendly dipper who greets me from his favourite stone in the river. I watch the kingfishers flash up and down the river - they are always in a hurry. On the banks I observe the rabbits, foxes and occasionally deer as they come down to the waterside and drink.


Angling has taught me many things. It has allowed me to become much more than an observer of the natural world. I no longer just look at the beauty of the countryside ,I interact with it. Through that interaction I have come to understand my environment.


Angling can be a solitary activity or it can meet the needs of those who prefer the company of others with club outings and competitions.


Angling attracts both men and, increasingly women, from across the social spectrum. For many disabled people the sport provides a pastime that they can take part in as equals. Many clubs and fisheries provide facilities for disabled people.
Angling is a pastime that virtually anyone can take up, the cost of the equipment is inexpensive, though if you want to spend a fortune you can do so if you wish.


Nearly all of us live within reasonable distance of fishable water. Many town and city parks have ponds and lakes that are ideal for the purpose. Manchester is blessed with the rivers Tame and Goyt both of which provide good fishing and are easily accessible During the recent foot and mouth crisis these rivers were amongst the very few in the country to remain open. Visitors during this time were highly impressed with the quality of ManchesterÂ’s hidden waterways.


It is through the work of anglers that many of BritainÂ’s rivers remain able to sustain life at all. The Anglers Conservation Association remains the only organisation that takes the polluters of our waterways to court and makes them pay to clean up and restore the damage that they have done.


We are the eyes and ears of our rivers and every year the lives of countless thousands of fish are saved by anglers spotting pollution and other incidents and reporting them to the Environment Agency so that rapid action can be taken.
Many angling clubs throughout the North West are heavily involved in conservation projects to restore the aquatic habitat.


Even on our costal waters it is we are campaigning to stop abuse of a naturual resorce by commercial operations.


Angling is valued by many organisations, police forces are creating schemes to get youngsters involved with angling because of the values that the activity teaches. There are many other similar opportunities, particularly for young people, available from a wide range of organisations.
Anglers support many charities, one group have raised over £25,000 for Mac Millan Cancer Care, while angling’s own charity ‘Second Chance’ uses recreational fishing as a means of helping traumatised and abused youngsters to rebuild their lives.


Angling contributes £3.3 billion every year to the UK economy and provides thousands of jobs.


WhatÂ’s more we even excel at an international level. UK national teams are frequently world champions in almost all areas of the sport. Would that our football and crickets teams be able to emulate such success.


There is no valid scientific evidence that proves that fish feel pain and whilst a fish may be slightly irritated by being caught, admired and then lovingly returned, IÂ’m sure that if asked it would rather have us looking after its interests than those who seek to ban it.


Alan Roe
August 2001




Cheers


Alan<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by IanWelch on 20/08/01 07:51 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

BillP
20-08-2001, 21:34
Perfect Mr Roe! After that letter I think all your countrymen should refer to you as Mr.. Keep up the good fight.

andyd
21-08-2001, 10:02
Excellent Alan, thanks on behalf of anglers everywhere

AlanRoe
21-08-2001, 11:31
Many thanks for all your kind words gentlemen.
Please feel free to take any part or the whole of it and publish it wherever you feel most appropriate.

I was given an opportunity with the MEN and took it and was helped along the way by others.
I have another opportunity on the Late Night Debate on Granada Television this Thursday and I plan to take that one as well!!

There are many of you who can do at least as good a job if not better in promoting angling all you need is the desire to say 'Lets have a go'.
My own little successes I do not regard as remarkable.

What I would see as being a great achievement is if all of you were inspired to have a go and promote angling yourselves



Cheers
Alan

AlanRoe
25-08-2001, 12:54
Having had time to read and digest Ian's theread re the Newsround programme and having recent experience of appearing in a tv debate here in the North West. Supprisingly Ms Carr and associates didn't show up as regional tv debates are not big enough for them!!!!!
It appears that they are rather dependant on the National press and the BBC this is an area that we need to exploit by hammering the regional media with anti peta material and at the same time giving the BBC a hard time about their policy of giving these people a relativly easy ride.

Cheers
Alan

rooky
26-08-2001, 10:47
well said alan.
on our trout farm there is a small fishing pond, that mainly small children come and get into our sport. this morning a young chap of about 9 years old, now what was special is this young lad has got oout of hospital not so long ago with a deadly brain tumour. this youngster has to live with this for the rest of his life, he caught a, few trout, and now i have recomended that this young lad take up course fishing.
He is now going to get a cheap fishing kit. seeing this young lad who is very ill catch these fish gave me as much enjoyment as it did this young lad, catching these fish put a smile on the face of this lad, p.e.t.a and anyone else who are trying to ban our sport what is cruel about that????????????????
andy

andy rooke

AlanRoe
06-09-2001, 12:34
I thought that this litle piece of news that has come my way would both amuse you and provide further big sticks with which to beat Peta with as it highlights the hypocrasy of the group beautifully!!!
PETA is
getting the meat chopping restaurant chain Benihana to sponsor its
annual awards show. The restaurant chain known for preparing dinners
with knife wielding theatrics, Is providing cash to back the animal
activists party September 8th at the Waldorf-Astoria. To me this shows
once again that group is a hypocritical bunch looking for money and
fame. PETA insists there is nothing hypocritical in the sponsorship,
Because Benihanna`s founder is sympathetic to the cause and is
"dedicated to exploring vegan alternatives" to his carnivore cuisine.
If PETA was true to its cause they would never
accept the money. It shows once again that corporate America will do
just about anything to avoid looking bad, Even to the most radical
groups.



Cheers
Alan

scorpio
06-09-2001, 23:08
I heard young Britney is out of favour now after allowing 2 big cats to be on her latest video..... just shows you how badly informed they are.

Tony

fatboy
07-09-2001, 09:19
Also she performed (her song that is) at the MTV awards, with a tiger in a cage and a python draped over her shoulders.

I heard the old bag from PETA this morning on the radio saying they pleaded with her not to do this. So as you say Scorpio she is definately out-of-favour and I suspect she wont be endorsing too many of the wacky PETA ideas.

cornishbob1
07-09-2001, 11:14
I know where i'd like to drape my snake. /images/forum//icons/smile.gif