View Full Version : Alternative to wire.
Still on the pike theme, is there an alternative to using a wire trace when fishing for Pike... I always use the coated wire and at least 20" of it... is there anything else on the market that can be used which could guarentee not getting a bite off when Piking as wire does restrict casting when using a fly rod.?
Tony
I'd also be interested to see what suggetions people have - very often when lure fishing for Perch they seem reluctant to take the lure & I feel it is down to having to use a thickish wire trace in case of Pike.
Have a look <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.harrisangling.co.uk/harr/product.asp?mscssid=D76CNE1PPLK78GW4LRRTQKD9TD9ECR 48&dept_id=&pf_id=1122>here</A> for some ultra fine wire but I'm not sure just how fine it would be. Could some kind of resistant braid be used safely?
Tom
I used to think that fine wire was a good idea, and I used (briefly) some American stuff that was of 30 lb b.s. but much finer than my normal 28 lb Drennan 7 strand. I soon changed my mind after the trace was sliced off with impunity on more than one occasion ! Conclusion : it's not the strength of the wire that's important but its thickness ! Thin wire is pointless. I went back to Drennan.
If you want a soft and supple wire, the Calibre Wonderwotsit feels nice and I use it with my pike flies. I think it would be O.K. for catfishing, especially where you don't want to leave hooks in pike. However, it is classed as wire and so is not allowed on most catfish waters (sod the poor old pike there then !!).
Otherwise I will stick with Drennan 7 strand and the 30 lb Fox wire.
The extra tough braids used for catfish hook lengths are of no use whatsoever for pike. Ask any cat-man who live baits at night in the summer where pike are present !!
DOC
I think you will find it is banned because the sides of cats mouths are quite soft and it would act like a cheese wire which is totally unacceptable.Leaving a single hook attached to some sort of braided material will cause pike no problems and they will soon get rid of it.Saying that european cat anglers use wire and trebles but then again they are angling for 60+ fish! I dont wish to stereotype all european anglers but some of there methods belong in the dark ages ( tail clipping of carp ,bent hooks ,wire traces for cats,fixed leads etc) I feel much better for my little rant i think i need to lie down and take those pills you prescribed me Doc.
The point was that Calibre Wonderthingamigig is in fact not like normal wire, and I believe has less of a "Cheese Wire" effect than those very braids that are recommended for catfishing. We will have to do an expeiment here and see who can slice a melon in half the quickest, with one person using Wonderwire and the other Braid. I firmly belive the braid will win !
So why dont cheese makers use quicksilver to cut their cheese? Are you saying calibre wonder wire is kinder on fishes mouths or bodies than quicksilver .How come carp anglers dont use wonder wire as a snag leader instead of quicksilver?
By the way Doc caught many pike on flies lately?
rhornegold
12-07-2001, 12:27
Doc,
I use Wonder wire for my Eel and Perch Fishing, but would have to agree with Jack about the damage it would cause to Catfish mouths.
I only use Quicksilver braid as it is flat and recommended by the cat fishing groups or Amnesia which does not seem to harm the catfish at all.
Bob
Seven strand stainless steel trace wire is of course nothing like cheese wire, Cheese wire is lethal stuff and hawser tightened. I have never had a "finger burn" from trace wire but I have had "braid burns". However, I would never say that Wonderwire is kinder on fishes mouths than Quicksilver without any evidence or experience with comparing the two. I am just saying that Wonderwire feels like it might be O.K. and if you examine the two, the former actually feels softer, and it might be worth looking into. If there's not much in it (and only IF) then why not use Wonderwire and avoid losing rigs to pike and leaving possibly dozens of hooks in a pike that keeps making the same mistake ?
There's no need for carp men to use Wonderwire hook lengths and leaders because pike don't (regularly) attack their rigs ! But of course that's totally irrelevant.
I wish I'd never started this now. No futher comment.
You are right about carp anglers not getting bitten off by pike regularly but their snag & shock leaders still have to deal with sharp objects i.e. swan mussels ,gravel bars and of course the odd peice of gravel working machinery.If wonderwire is so supple,strong and kind on cyprinus carpio why havent the carp boys got onto it? Ans:because it would cut their soft mouths and bodies in a protracted fight.............
Seconds out round 2
Oh Jack Jack Jack,
You are way, way off the whole point of my comments. Have you considered that "carp boys" probably haven't even tried it. And quite rightly probably. What would be the point when other materials do the job perfectly well. Unfortunately they do not do the job perfectly well when catfishing with livebaits.
However you have absolutely no proof whatsoever that Wonderwire will do any damage whatsoever to carp, cats or any other fish. Its all pure conjecture. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but a scientist is trained to question anything that has not been proven. And you have not proved your case. Nor have I of course, but then my comments are only suggestions and discussion points rather than claims of fact. If we never questioned current ideas, technology and theories we would never make any progress whatsoever. This is just as true in angling as in science. It is a very brave man that states as fact something which he is only guessing, even if it is a firm belief. You must prove it to have a leg to stand on.
My hypothesis is that hawser tight braid will cut just as cleanly through material as hawser tight Wonderwire. But please note, its only a hypothesis. The next step is to test the hypothesis. The final step is to make a conclusion. A scientist is often just as pleased to be wrong as right, because he is satisfied that he has answered the question fairly and correctly.
It would be a dangerous and foolish man that declares God does not exist. For you can never PROVE that something or someone does not exist. But you can prove they do ! Until then you can only BELIEVE or NOT BELIEVE. This is the basic premise of science.
I say to you, prove to me that Wonderwire cuts more efficiently than braid. I know you have the means to do it. If it does then I will be very pleased because my question has been answered. I couldn't give two hoots whether I'm right or wrong. Without this approach I wouldn't have lasted long in science.
Meanwhile don't panic, because I would never use Wonderwire for livebait catfishing without this information !
DOC
It may be that i am way off the mark here but have you thought why the "carp boys " probably haven`t tried it as we all know most carp anglers care for what they catch and are way ahead of all other disciplines in the development of new techniques.As for doing experiments with melons ,how often do they give you a good scrap? Let me know next time id love to watch! I may have no scientific proof but i am not prepared to put the fish i catch ( or dont catch ) at risk! I am no expert but if the so called experts will not use wire then thats good inough for me, i hope to learn from the mistakes of those who have gone before me. Youre analogy of proving if God exists holds no water with me " you dont have eat crap to know it tastes bad) The same goes for using wire for cat traces you dont have to see it happen to know its bad!
If ever i lose sight of why i go fishing namely the enjoyment this pastime gives me and started to feel that nothing was more inportant than putting a fish on the bank at whatever cost it would be time to hang up the old rods.............
One further thing you say you have had finger burns with braid and not wire well how many times have you cast out with your reel loaded with wire?
It's true indeed, if you examine normal trace wire, you instictively know that it shouldn't be used for this purpose without doing any crazy experiments. As a relative beginner to catfishingI would never question catfish experts regarding using "traditional" wire. I'ts just that Wonderwire does not feel or behave like normal wire (you can tie knots with it for example).
It was just a thought. Please don't think harshly of me for this indiscretion !
CarponlineEditor
13-07-2001, 11:42
Maybe you should follow the telephone peoples example and instead of using wire switch to fibre optics.
Not only would it be moving into the land of the new technology but you may even be able to link a digital video camera on to it and watch the pike swim up to the bait and take it too. LOL
Andy
Errrrm.... is there an alternative to wire or not? I only really wanted to know for the weight factor..... would it be safe using the old style dacron type braid for pike or is it only wire?
I use a shorter trace when flyfishing because of the weight, down to 8" which I think is long enough for that style of fishing.... every pike I have hooked on a fly has been hooked in the mouth near the outside.
Tony
daytimedave
13-07-2001, 20:58
try using amnesia,strong stuff!!
or equivelent 20lb plus mono
or leadcore!
there isnt much else......is there?
be lucky
dtd
I had thought of that as I use Amnesia as snoods in sea fishing up to 30lbBS, I can't really see a pike biting through that, I suppose I could go to 50lb shock leader material but then you are looking on real thick stuff.
Tony
rhornegold
14-07-2001, 08:04
Tony,
I have had Pike up to double figures on amnesia whilst cat fishing and never been bitten off.
Bob
This is going to be another debate for Ian as I think it says in the RMC rules that wire of no less that 18" has to be used when pike fishing.... Ian can you confirm this ruling on Pike for us?
Tony
What I've always wanted to know is whether the amount of fish with damaged mouths increased when braided hooklengths became popular.
Cheapskate angler
MikeLyddon053698
15-07-2001, 15:08
With regard to amnesia, I have been bitten off twice already this season on 15lb amnesia by Eels, so I would have thought that a Pike would have no problem biting through it. I have caught quite a few pike though, whilst livebaiting for cats, using 35lb quicksilver, and have had no problems with being bitten off. (the only problem being I keep catching Pike, and can't get any Cats)
whether you get bitten off or not on mono I think is down to luck i.e. whether the line slips into the scissors of the pikes jaws where it is more likely to be protected. Elsewhere then the almost inevitable bite-off is likely to happen. I personally think that when pike fishing, regardless of method, you have to use a wire trace. Until it can be proven that there is a safe alternative I will continue to use it.
In response to Scorpios question regarding the length of a wire trace I believe the rulebook does state a minimum of 18".
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