View Full Version : Barbel Weights
rhornegold
06-01-2001, 08:45
Having fished for Barbel all over the country, three or four rivers have consistently produced huge fish over the last six or seven years.
Is this a result of their genetic strain or the introduction of HNV paste or boilies?
In1994 I caught a Barbel of 10lb 150zs from Fishers Green, this fish now resides in the Kings Weir stretch but still has not reach 12lbs.
Adams Mill fish have had a diet of paste and boilies for a good many years, as did the Medway fish, do you think this trend will increase the weights of the River Lee fish.
Of course the weight increases could be down to the explosion of crayfish, which I noticed have now reached Fishers Green.
Your thoughts
Bob Hornegold
There are a lot of things that determine a fishes weight, obviously food is one, a good supply of natural food in a river, for example, in the south the temperatures are warmer in the north so therefor more food, this is why the foreign fish are so much larger than ours the further south you go. I fish in France on the River Loire and the fish that live adjacent to a Nuclear Power station are 20% heavier than up stream this is down to the water temperature in the winter. Another factor is the strain, like all animals you will have a freak big one, the thing about the paste and boilies I don't think contributes that much in a river to be honest.
Tony
Rivercarper
06-01-2001, 20:15
I take it you guys know the record has gone again up to 19lb 1oz.
rhornegold
07-01-2001, 08:37
Ian,
Given that Barbel sizes are rising,how big do you think they will get in Fishers Green.
Is a 13+ on the cards, or are the Lee strain unable to reach that weight bearing in mind the length of time the record has stood .
When I say the Lee I mean from Kings Weir to Waltham Abbey.
Thanks
Bob Hornegold
rhornegold
10-01-2001, 06:28
At one time there were some bailiff who over pruned many of the trees on the Fishers green section(steps swim).
Many of the fish moved up to the Kings Weir length and fortunately a lot have come back down.
But the fish weights on the whole length of the river has risen, last summer Gary and I caught a small number of 6 to 8 inch Barbel whilst trotting for Dace.
Personally I think it's only a matter of time before the Lee does a 13+ barbel if it hasn't already.
Bob Hornegold
Hi Bob
Interesting stuff. Having fished at Fishers Green for the last 10 or so years I was of the opinion that the Green had become less prolific but that the general weight of fish caught had risen, don't know what you think?
But it's great to hear you catching a number of young Barbel, the smallest I've ever caught was about a pound and a half about five seasons ago.
Clive
rhornegold
11-01-2001, 21:39
Clive,
Not many people fish it for the Dace any more and to be honest I was supprised when the first small barbel turned up.
Having caught that one I changed the rig to strep pegging( Ian dont ask me to explain that one) so as to drag bottom and had another.
I'm sure the river holds plenty of small fish but it would be nice if someone did a trail netting too check the stocks.
Bob Hornegold
I have had quite a few small barbel on swimfeedered maggot/caster throughout the stretch over the last few years at the Green. I have had two taken by pike. This year I have had only one small one about 12ozs. The other fish have been a 9lb 12oz, a 7lb and a 6lb.
Just a view.
No crayfish in the Pats, so why has the weight gone from 9lb as the best each year, about 6 years ago to regular doubles.
They have been around on the water for 100 years.
The Pats has not had the amount of feed put in as the other Rivers, and the weight gain began a few years ago before the targetting of late took place. Also the fish move between the Pats/Thames/Loddon during various parts of the Year.
IMO the main difference that has affected the growth rate has been the fanatastic improvement in water quality encouraging certain species natural food. I have never seen so many swan mussels as the past 5 years.
Whilst the cleaner water has improved things for the barbel/predators like perch (sight feeders) it has not made things easier for the midstreamers like roach etc. that depend on more suspended matter in the waterflow. ie more colour.
This is just my opinion.
Excellent observations mate. The growth in the certain species of fish is no doubt connected to the cleanliness of the water and the prolific abundance of natural food. Roach and other species will also benifit as they all are preditory fish, the Barbel is more of a taste feeder than a sight feeder I would say. The more fish there are, the more hatchings and therefore more food. Over the next 10 years or so we are going to see records broken for most species of fish in rivers. Lakes are different of course as the fish are fed on a regular basis by the amount of bait going in by the Carp anglers.
Tony<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by scorpio on 20/01/01 11:21 PM.</FONT></P>
I'm well aware of that Ian, but..........as you may know the average number of anglers on a daily basis is about 8. Thats for about 3 miles of mixed rivers.
Now at an average of 0.5 kilo per angler ( I said average) divided by the number of barbel I reckon that equals about a gram each per day. In real terms I know the distribution would not be accurate, but Its far more than just bait.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by GrahamE on 21/01/01 10:13 PM.</FONT></P>
Unless you get scientific evidence there is no way of telling, obviously bait has a factor but there are also other fish in the river which will eat the baits, chub for instance. Now Fishers green is a typiacal example of bait related growth especially in the chub population. As for St. Patricks stream I think that a combination of bait and also the change in the ecosystem for example the upgraded fertilsers the farmers use is just as much a factor, more fertilser, more aquatic plant growth there fore more natural food scource for the fish. A good subject this one. /images/forum/icons/smile.gif
Tony
Well it would be a boring forum if we always agreed.
The main difference is that my 8 anglers use a variety of baits. Mainly maggots. Of those 8 a day I would say that maybe 2 ON AVERAGE use HNV types.(if you exclude meat)
Water quality is the most important factor in River fish growth, providing the natural food is sustainable/or better with improved water quality.
I strongly believe certain factors favour certain fish species.
Hence the Cyclic way in which species hit the headlines.
Perch for example. Not too keen on boilies.
Reading through many old books including CY's reproductions you will see reports of barbel estimated 20lb hooked and maybe lost. Strangely many of the reports highlight fishing the Thames "three Meadows down from Sonning" ( The Pats stretch!) This was 100 years ago.
In Ginevers account of "Walking away from the Thames" regarding Potts Stream, he lost a barbel around 18lb if my memory serves me correctly. Not many boiles around then (30years?) so weight gain is very dependant on environment, not least of which is the generally milder winters over the past few years.
My view on the population would be 500 fish a mile at least.
I am aware my view is a minority one/ SP disagrees also.
I will see if a couple want to play tomorrow!
We will Ian. Not being bigheaded but that means I caught every barbel more than once this season! ( But I missed the really big ones!!...so far)
Of course access to more bait has an effect, but not as marked as some believe. French Carp. Bigger than Brits. Discovered to be much bigger before a boilie went in.
Warmer water/ undisturbed natural feeding / water quality.
CarponlineEditor
22-01-2001, 20:44
This thread is really interesting but as I have never caught any barbel of any size, unless some of my gudgeon over the years happened to be baby ones lol but I would like to ask a question.
This is does anyone know how big barbel grow in other countries? I know that the world record carp is around 100lbs but I suddenly thought that if there are huge barbel somewhere then they must fight like submarines.
Thanks for your patience with a noddy lol
Andy
Hi Andy,
I believe Portugal has monster barbel (20lb plus!), though they are not the same strain of fish we catch here...
If you getting invloved in the Speci Group, I'm sure there will be a day Barbelling, but if not, let me know when you fancy a day and you can come over here and try the Kennet.
Bill.
CarponlineEditor
22-01-2001, 20:53
That would be lovely Bill. As you know though I am never sure when I can do fishing cos of the kids and basically because I havent got the guts to ask my girlfriend if she would babysit them for me. I know this may be a bit sad but because they are my kids and not hers I feel that I should look after them and that it is not her responsibility. But maybe sometime.
As to the Specimen group, I would willingly help in any way that I can but obviously my expertise, for the want of a better word, lol is basically for carp and a few other species such as roach and rudd. Not that I can tell them apart sometimes lol but I do know how to catch them.
Andy
I've kept out of this one as I'm really not sure what the *true* reason is for the massive increase in weight...
The large amount of HNV/Protein baits being introduced to the rivers has to play some part, but I also believe that the fish are getting fatter on other forms of food, ie. crayfish and also other small fish... water quality/weather could be another reason, but I really am unsure !
A stretch of the kennet I fish has not seen a heavy amount of HNV baits being piled in, yet there are 11 & 12lb'ers caught, with a very good head of 8/9's...
Bill.
(Sitting on the fence !)
How many years ago Ian... Are you sure about this ??
The guy we saw when you took me out just before Xmas tried hitting it with a 'quality' bait and between a couple of them only had a handful of fish upto 9...
Bill.
>>>>>>>
I've just re-read this post and it sounds like a bit of a contradiction saying this stretch hasn't ben hit with a HNV bait, then saying one guys tried it...
What I mean is LOADS of the stuff going in - I don't consider a bit of bait between a couple of guys as being an awful lot....
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Billyo on 22/01/01 10:59 PM.</FONT></P>
There are some huge Barbel in the Loire in central France and some massive chub. I have seen what I thought were Barbel spawning last year and they were 15lb+. I have never caught a Barbel from the Loire but have heard the French describing fish resembling barbel weighing 12 kilo's.
Tony
John H makes a good point earlier regarding tackle.
How many anglers even a few years back would have had the gall to use even 5lb line on the Thames and small rivers. Now its 30lb braid for some and 8/10 standard. Also the diameter is a lot lower generally. For a number of years the " smashed to bits" story was a good un. Not now so much.
The majority of "Unstoppable fish hooked on the Thames/Pats/Loddon triangle were assumed to be carp, many were, I know to my cost, but all?
Regarding Barbel numbers, There is an awful lot of water in a mile + of the Thames, and the fish do move between all 3 rivers during the years seasons.
I do believe that the increased bait available could well have moved Thames fish into the Pats, but bait quantity on its own would not account for the size gains.
I might be wrong but I am persistent !
Ian why don't we get him to FG, I know it's a fair old trot but I think if you can master FG, St. Pats would be a peach in comparison, And to be honest it's only an extra half hour on the M25
Tony
Ian, I don't know if the Pats is a nursery, although the Barbel and the carp move in from the Thames to spawn and clean themselves in the faster shallows, there is no doubt though that the fish move between the rivers during the season, with a marked move from the Pats to the Thames about a month ago and return in numbers generally beginning of March. There has been days when I have managed a few from the Thames when the Pats is biteless to many. I have NO doubt that there is a 20 in the Thames right now.
If anyone is interested I have a few articles that include some Pats bits on www.Anglersnet.co.uk I think one of them contains my views on the fish movements
Just going off on another tangent here...........
Is there great predation in this area from cormarants,mink etc....?
Could they be chomping all the little fish so there is less competition for food?..I know small barbel have been caught from here but they tend to be better hidden than ,say,roach.
Smarts
John H,
If we're talking the same stretch, I have heard of the 'odd' barbel making a show by the house as you enter the fishery...
How did you get on with the Grayling ? Maybe Private message me, as it's abit off-topic...
Bill.
Hi John,
Signing up is easy... just click the 'New User' link above. If you don't yet fancy it, would you mind mailing me at: billyo@KennetWeb.co.uk ?
It'd be great to have a local who can keep me informed of the river conditions(if you don't mind), as I've a trip or two planned soon and it looks like we've got more rain on the way....
Cheers,
Bill.
rhornegold
24-01-2001, 20:02
Ian,
The Barbel I caught today is a known fish it's left eye has a red growth on it, I last caught it in October 2000 at 10lb 13ozs .
Today it went 11lbs 2ozs a rise of 5ozs in four months would this be normal at this time of year.
Bob Hornegold
I've been sitting on the fence about this debate over why the barbel have been putting on so much weight, but after todays trip down the green i've come to the conclusion that crayfish are 'defiantly' present there and must be contributing to there weight gain.
I dropped in a swim just above Bailey bridge were i was informed by a mate that he had had a couple of bites the previous day. First cast out to a nearby tree, and pluck - pluck - pluck. I wound in to find half my bait missing!!!
Second cast, the same happened and again half of my bait was missing. This carried on all afternoon no matter what bait i used!!
I was just wondering how much they multiple? I,ve heard storyÂ’s that they multiple like rabbits!!!
And how long will this take until the whole of the river is crawling with them?
Paulm /images/forum/icons/wink.gif
rhornegold
10-08-2001, 09:00
Ian,
Congratulations to your mate Dave Green, great fish.
How big do think the Fishers Green Barbel will get?
Bob
Well Done Dave!
What a monster! I have really enjoyed reading this peice and I have to agree that Barbel weight icreases are down to quality of the bait introduced.
It happened a few years ago on the Medway, with Bertie, the old record and is happening again on the Ouse.
Over the last few yaers we have seen evididence of this happening in all species. Tench and bream in carp waters have grown big, pushing the record higher than we could have imagined 10 years ago.
In 1980, I think I would be right in saying there were only 2 known 40lb carp in this country, now there are hundreds, if not thousands. there are a number of reasons for this, but I am sure bait is a major factor.
Recently we have seen the roach in Lynch Hill being caught in numbers at big sizes. Again this is down to the bait going in.
One thing that does make me wonder though is why those Royalty Barbel are not bigger, as they receive loads of bait? Any Ideas?
Garth
rhornegold
10-08-2001, 10:51
Garth,
Could it be the large population of carp that now reside in the Royalty that keeps the Barbel sizes down.
Back in the 60s it was possible to catch a dozen Barbel in a day on maggots, but I dont remember any carp being caught.
The Parlour pool use to hold many Barbel but now it seems full of carp.
Bob
Could be, but ore barbel are caught on paste than carp on the royalty's main river. They are obviously feeding on it, but the sizes are not increasing.
Could it be that the bait is compensating for a declining river? I hope not!
Garth
Could be right Garth as many of the Royalty fish seem sad, marked, deformed creatures. Then again, it might be the special formulae untested unfriendly "special" pastes.
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