View Full Version : Cormorants
These birds over the last decade have decimated some of our waters, and listening to a lot of anglers it is not only a sad time but also a very annoying time.
Has anybody got and constructive ways on which we as anglers can combat these predators and make our angling a lot more fruitful and sucessful
Tony
rhornegold
29-04-2001, 18:34
Tony,
I dont think there is much we can do about the problem of these black horrors.
If it would do any good we as anglers could make a nuisance of ourselves and write to our M Ps.
But after the way Foot and Mouth has been dealt with, I feel it would do very little good.
The only thing we can do is join the new SAA who fight on behalf of all specialist anglers and give them our full suport.
Bob,
Could you post details of the SAA here as I haven't heard of it and I suspect a few others haven't. Cheers.
Tony
Tony - there have been various initiatives, like the changed trout stocking policy at Rutland, but all these are really doing is pushing the problem around the country rather than solving it. Commercial fishery owners sometime shoot the birds and claim the farmers defence of "I was doing it to protect my livelihood" but this is a risky strategy.
As Bob says I think it needs Government action to get these birds off the protected list. While the Salmon & Trout association are lobbying for this to be done, I am not aware of any movement so far.
Perhaps cormorants will be removed from the protected list when all the herons, kingfishers, grebes etc have vanished form our inland waters. We might then get birdwatchers behind us too. It might be too late by then of course.....I don't think it will end until the cormorants move on. A very disturbing phenomenon. And they don't ignore bigger fish either. Hanningfield are also stocking bigger fish and I took two 4 lb + fish there last week, one with a fresh hole through it (you could see through to the other side) and the other with marks on both sides.
You have to feel sorry for the poor cormorants at the same time though. What else can they do ? Perhaps if we hang out giant "bird feeder" sacks of halibut pellets in the trees surrounding affected waters (e.g. Fishers Green pits) they could be weaned off fresh fish ! Perhaps not. A ban on fishing in the North Sea for 10 years might do it !
DOC
I have to say i have heard everybody moaning about the state of our fisheries, yet cannot remember a time when specimen hunters have had it so good!
Doc loved your comments on watching bubbles around the old quill, and theres me thinking romance was dead.By the way do you still gaff all your bream ? how about a master class on pike gags for roach!
Indeed John,
Specimen hunters do "have it good" at the moment. But what about the future ? When all these big old fish die, who will take their place in those magical swirling currents of your beloved rivers and meres ? If the Count has his way only the ranks of the undead will remain. Then there will be nothing left for the modern blinkered specialist.
"When there are no fish in the ocean, even the shrimp may become emperor" Chong Sung–Mai, 1486
Are you sure they are cormarants ? could be the common shag!
here is a handy proverb told to me by an old chinese man i think his name was Harry kiri If you want to keep hardon dont f**k with it
A lake I used to fish on a day ticket years ago had a problem with these birds.I got to know the owner's son so would be the last to leave.He would come round with a gun to pick them out of the trees and his Jack Russel's would go and retrieve them so no evidence!!
They got rather clever though......if he had a shotgun they just hopped from tree to tree knowing that they were out of range!!
A single shot rifle sorted that out....but they all ****** off instead.
There are far more birds on our waterways that are under threat than an invader from the sea.It's not their fault...but there's enough of 'em! how many of then do you see to one kingfisher?
[b]Smarts
Smarts, yes I am sure we are all sympathetic to what your pal did. But it would only have taken one bird-watching zealot to have found out what was going on for him to have got into a lot of trouble. He was breaking the law by killing protected birds, and seeking to run the "farmers defence" in court would have been risky. And pushing the problem on to other fisheries isn't solving it.
I can see a time coming when most of the fish we target will have to be bred in fish farms and stocked at a size when they are reasonably safe from cormorants, like trout and carp are now.
CarponlineEditor
30-04-2001, 16:01
Maybe they could do what the people do with the Canadian geese and prick their eggs when they lay them so leaving the eggs in the nest so that they dont lay a new lot. That may work but i spose we would have to climb a lot of treese then lol
Andy
CarponlineEditor
30-04-2001, 18:31
hee hee bit like the chap who i met who thought that coots were moorhens and that a heron that we saw was a crane, lol. I tell you there are a lot of people out there that havent a clue what wildlife is or that most of them were there before us.
Andy
CarponlineEditor
30-04-2001, 18:39
Ahhh but that brings us back to the subject of instant anglers and i think this one is about cormorants. lol
You may need to be a mountain climber to do that Andy, I am not certain but I think you will find Cormerants breed in cliffs.
Tony
CarponlineEditor
30-04-2001, 19:03
Oh right maybe, i had heard that they had started to nest high in the tops of trees round big gravel pits but i may be wrong.
In fact the grebes do eat a lot of smaller fish but we have always had the great crested, slavonian etc... was it appercourt where there are some saw billed birds? Mergansers or something..... these birds will be extict if the cormarants take over... howabout a loud speaker system with the alarm call of the cormarant? Works at airports for the gull and starling flocks.
Tony
That is a shame... they never used to nest inland... a dedicated salt water bird they used to be. I still think a deterrant is the only way though.... maybe someone could invent a cormorant trumpet or something that would imitrate their alarm call.
Tony
It is these very anglers who moan about grebes, herons etc who are going to get their way (at least where our beloved natural fresh water birds are concerned) if nothing is done about cormorants. As I eluded to before, they can't compete with the black plague. You will find it is also this type of barbaric angler that kills pike on sight because they eat all their roach.....!
It is a sad angler who cannot watch the majestic heron stand patiently balanced in the shallows and display his natural angling art, or the blazing flash of a low flying kingfisher darting along the river and the elegant mating dance of two grebes so in love....
Yes. I've lost it now. Enough said...
DOC
Don't worry Doc, you haven't lost it at all. "Being there" close to nature is an integral part of angling.
This is a post about cormorants not dumb anglers, but you do have to wonder about the minority (I stress the word), of both competition fishers and specimen hunters, who just want to tot up and compare numbers and are indifferent at best about wildlife. They'd be better off looking to golf, snooker or racquet sports for their fun, it seems to me.
"What do they know of angling who only angling know", to paraphrase CLR James on cricket...
I dont think there is an easy solution to the cormorant problem, banning fishing in the North sea, although a good idea, for the fish numbers, wont tempt the cormorants back, as they are already breeding inland and there are now birds that have never seen the sea.Also how will they know that fishing has been stopped in the sea?
Scare tactics I think work for a while, but they eventually wise up, I heard somewhere they've taken to feeding at night.
Shooting them is definitley the most sure proof way of removing them, but is it moralley ethical, and surely this would be more ammo for the anti's?
I honestly dont know how to resolve this problem, and maybe we are going to have to live with it.
Eventually the bird population will level out as the number of fish will have reduced so much that there wont be enough food for all of them, and so a balance will be created.
However,this as we all know is not good for the fish, already we are seeing bigger specimens and less and less smaller fish, with complete years classes missing.
I very good subject but one I dont think, will be easily sorted.
Maybe we'd better get used to the fishing getting harder, which will in the long run, make us better anglers,thats if theres any one left fishing.
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paulh
No matter how good an angler is, you cant catch if the fish have gone. I know that takes your comment to its extreme, but this is having an impact on the current generation of anglers. What will it be like for the next?
Try lobbying your MP. Go to the FishingMagic anti-angling vault <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.fishingmagic.com/news/article.asp?SP=I&v=&UAN=1008>http://www.fishingmagic.com/news/article.asp?SP=I&v=&UAN=1008</A>
where they have URL's to MP lists as well as how they voted on the Hunting debate. This will at least tell you whether they are likely to be sympathetic to this issue.
I hear what yu're saying, Paul but on a larger note it's not just us anglers that take the punishment from the black death.It has the potential to wipe out our natural inland ecosystems etc....The balance will eventually adjust but the birds will slot in at the expense of our more natural fish catchers as did the mink taking over from otters and weasels etc.....
Can anyone remember what these birds can pack away in a day?...I recall I was shocked at the weight of fish they shovel in over a day or night in some cases.
[b]Smarts
Fatboy
I agree with what you're saying thats what I meant by thats if anyone is still fishing , if its harder to catch a fish then youngsters wont stay with fishing and already there are less youngsters entering angling. The future is bleak but I honestly dont know the solution.
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paulh
Smarts ,
Again I agree, I was just saying that nature will find a balance,but your'e right probably at the expense of the of the natural wildlife.
Buts it not just cormorants and mink that have a detrimental effect on our ecosystems, many plants we find by the bankside are alien ,,[balsam, japaneses knot weed, bind weed etc], these all have pushed out natural flora.
Oh no I'm losing the plot now,lol.
As I've already said it is a big problem, the answer to which is not easy.
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paulh
CarponlineEditor
01-05-2001, 14:42
I just thought, you know what when all the smaller fish get eaten then we will have to stock them with ready made big fish. Oh no what have i started now? lol
Andy
All that you guys have mentioned.....all ties in.........gulp!
Where does it stop? Excellent point about no youngsters joining because of lack of action.I can see the carp puddles being pushed right to the top of the fishing ladder.
[b]Smarts
Yeah, tank reared dace to 3lb , LOL
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paulh
Or a resurgence of interest in reservoir trout fishing ??
Fatboy,
Just visited the site and my MP opposed the ban on hunting, but supported self- regulation.
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paulh
CarponlineEditor
01-05-2001, 14:58
I wonder how big a fish a cormorant can eat? If they dont eat anything over say two and a half pounds then we could stock with fish over that size, just think three pound roach, perch, gudgeon..... lol The mind boggles.
Andy
Eureka ! I've cracked It !
We stock ALL RMC waters with large numbers of 1-2 lb rainbows. These fish are really tasty to The Count and so stupid that they will all get picked off, leaving the valuable coarse fish stocks to live in peace.
And the meek shall inherit the Earth...
Doc, I have thought from time to time what good trout waters some of the RMC lakes would make with their very clear, high quality alkaline water and staggering quantities of buzzer, sedge and damsel flies.
Last time I thought this, at Burghfield Blue Pool, along came a 10lb mirror and I snapped out of it !
Why not try artificials for the carp John ? I think if that mirror was spooned, we would find quantities of insect life in its stomach. The carp could probably be caught on buzzers if they were daft enough...it does happen I hear, not to mention roach, rudd, chub...etc. This is going back to the Big Perch thread.
Give us a bit more of a hint then Ian...??
Doc, this summer I intend to take my heavier reservoir outfit of Bob Church Rutland rod, Lineshooter reel, WF8F and some 8lb leaders along to the Blue Pool. I'll also take a box of Asda dog mixers and some artificial daddy longlegs and grey wulffs, and see what I can catch ! This kit will hardly take up any extra room along with the Wilson Avon outfit I use for the Blue Pool carp. One very slight problem is the quite heavy tree growth around the lake but there are some swims where you can get a line out. I guess it will be sensible to attract them in close with the floating mixers first.
Paulh,
Sounds as though he took the middle ground and didnt oppose a total ban. So I expect he would be receptive to this issue.
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CarponlineEditor
01-05-2001, 19:03
The thing that gets me is like on a couple of occasions when i have seen anglers throwing stones at herons because they have read that cormorants are bad news and they thought they were the same birds. I have had to tell a couple of people to stop that sort of thing. They only tell you to bog off mind. Even though one said a lot more after i lobbed him in the lake lol
Andy
I've been using artificails for carp for years /images/forum/icons/smile.gif, you do need to add flavour to them though.
Tony<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by scorpio on 01/05/01 07:08 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
CarponlineEditor
01-05-2001, 19:10
Errrr what artificial Herons, blimey what on earth flavour do you use?? lol
There was a Heron that lived in Chertsey on the Thames.... I and many other anglers fed him/her..... the only problem was it tried to take the fiah as you were playing them..... I got it on film somewhere. As for the comorants, they have to be culled or controlled or fishing will never be as we know it now. I suppose we could have indoor fishing... no rain, constant 75 degrees and warm water temperatures..... RMC Centre Parks /images/forum/icons/laugh.gif
Tony
CarponlineEditor
02-05-2001, 07:58
I wonder whether fishery owners could employ a falconer with some kind of bird of prey that would keep the cormorants at bay. A friend of mine has birds of prey but not great big ones, i dont know if there are any that would be good at this type of job really but it could be cool watching a Golden Eagle swooping around trying to catch all the Cormorants lol.
Andy
That sounds like a good plan John. As long as there aren't too many water birds on the Blue Pool the mixers should get them going. As you say, just because your'e using a fly rod it doesn't mean you have to use an artificial bait. Some anglers will think it laughable that a little fly rod can handle big carp, but the secret of the fly rod is its softness. You can normally touch the butt with the tip with ease (well, almost) ! No good for casting a lead, but there is NOTHING better for presenting a small floating bait, especially tiny seeds and small pet food floaters. And then there's the battle....I wouldn't mind having a go at this on the Blue Pool myself, perhaps during the day before moving on to the river for barbel in the evening. Bliss...
Wasn't there a large indoor lake being planned somewhere in the midlands, or was it an April Fool ?
CarponlineEditor
02-05-2001, 08:02
Yes fly fishing for carp sounds like a brilliant idea, I just didnt realise how much it would cost to get hold of suitable tackle to do this. Right wheres my kids piggy banks?? lol
Andy
Any suggestions about flavouring artificials, Tony ?
If you went "new" buying fly gear for carp then - Bob Church Rutland rod £65; Okuma Airstream large arbor reel £20; Mullarkeys floating line £14; backing £5; spool of 8lb mono for leaders £3; 6 daddies/grey wulffs £5; box of mixers £1. A complete outfit for the cost of a big Baitrunner... And, per Tony Scorpio, you can find demon second hand bargains if you look hard enough.
CarponlineEditor
02-05-2001, 14:51
Cheers John, I will bear that lot in mind when i have a bit more dosh and then i will 'accidentally' whip the heck out of all the bushes at the lake while i learn how to use them lol
Andy
Good luck. And if you find you have a bob or two to spare then invest in a couple of casting lessons with an APGAI or Salmon & Trout Association accredited instructor, so you do not waste time worrying about your casting and will be able to concentrate on tactics and catching fish...
CarponlineEditor
02-05-2001, 16:04
Yet another good idea matey. But I may just annoy Tony until he shows me cos he is probably cheaper lol. Would be nice to use for those wary old carp who want a floater but not with a big splashing controller on.
Thanks again John.
Yes, it does sound like a good minor tactic to have up your sleeve and use now and again.
I make up my own flavours...... I use vanilla extract, liver flavouring the list is endless..... fish oil is good too. It all depends on what you are imitatiing. I never use dips or flavouring for trout, only on coarse fish. As for the fly fishing for carp goes I have been doing it for years... long before John Wilson did it on TV. I use chum mixers. I will start a new thread on this one because this thread is for comorants.
Tony<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by scorpio on 02/05/01 07:52 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
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