Specimens

[scorpio]

What would people personally class as a specimen of each species. Here is my list, I probably am a bit high with these. All be honest now /images/forum/icons/smile.gif

Roach 2lb
Tench 10lb
Pike 25lb
Perch 4lb
Bream 10lb
Carp 30lb
Rudd 2 lb
Dace 12oz
Barbel 10lb
Chub 5lb
Crucian 3lb
Eel 4lb
Catfish aint got a clue

Is there a base line published or a specimen fish size level that is uniform all over the country?

Is there a fish that you would love to catch? I have always wanted a double figure Barbel and a Roach over 3lb I have done the Roach but not the Barbel.

Tony<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by scorpio on 08/04/01 12:02 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

[loki]

I asked a similar question in a previous post, but did not get a conclusive answer. I thought the definition of specimen was a percentage of the record for the species, and the same percentage applying to all species. However I did not know what that percentage was, and neither did anyone else who read the thread.

Looking at your numbers Tony, the percentage ranges (approx) from 36% for the Eel to 71% for the Tench. The average seems to be 56%. On this basis I would use 60% as a guide, rounded to the nearest 1/2lb, which gives the following numbers:-

Roach - 2.5lb
Tench - 8.5lb
Pike - 28lb
Perch - 3.5lb
Bream - 10lb
Carp - 35lb
Rudd - 2.5lb
Dace - ?
Barbel - 10.5lb
Chub - 5lb
Crucian - 3lb
Eel - 6.5lb

I don't know what the record Dace is at the moment. These all seem reasonable to me so perhaps 60% is a good number to use.

Perhaps the Specimen Group will decide upon and publish a list of target weights for each species.

Andy

[Rivercarper]

T he aim of the secimen group is to enjoy ourselves and to improve our personal bests.Setting targets is something I've never done because something else always comes along to side track you.

[loki]

A personal best is a target. Tony's question was about peoples view of a specimen weight for each species. My view is that without a published definition you will get as many different opinions as the number of people you ask.

The benefit of a definitive list is that people can have targets if they want, or know for certain that the fish they have just caught is universally considered a specimen. Personally I'm more than satisfied with fish a lot smaller than the 60% list, and on the harder waters any fish can be considered a specimen!

[Tom]

Hello Tony,

I would agree with most of the totals that you mentioned with the exception of:

Pike 20lbs
Perch 3lbs
Tench 8lbs
Carp 25lbs

I am sure that I have a specimen fish list published somewere in a book but I am far too drunk to find it at the moment as it is my birthday!!! I have just has a look but they all seemed to blur into one!
I would suggest that the catfish weight should be about the same as the Pike (if it is a true UK fish) circa 25lbs

Tom

[Sim0n]

....Happy Birthday Tom.......

<font color=blue>S</font color=blue><font color=orange>i</font color=orange><font color=purple>m</font color=purple><font color=red>0</font color=red><font color=green>n</font color=green>

[clive]

You got it Neil, I'd love to catch specimen sized fish each time I drop a line, but why put that pressure on ourselves, OK if a 10lb tench comes along fantastic, but if its only a 4lber then enjoy it just the same, surely its all about being out there, the surroundings, the fishing, the company....

Clive

[loki]

Absolutely right Clive, but without any definition how do you know if you have caught a specimen? Surely a specimen group welcomes the pressure, fishing hard waters with untried bait and tactics for quality fish, rather than having a pleasant afternoon reclining in the bedchair.

Has the Group decided on it's core aims? I didn't consider applying to join because I thought my angling ability wouldn't be up to scratch, although the social and info sharing aspect was very appealing. Perhaps I've missed the point somewhere (not for the first time lol).

[scorpio]

If you want to join the specimen group email Neil and he will send you an application form.

Tony

[rhornegold]

Tony,
This would be my list,
Roach 2lb
Rudd 2lb
Perch 3lb
Carp 25lb
Pike 20lb (still the mark to aim at)
Cat 25lb (british)
Eel 5lb
Chub 5lb
Barbel 10lb
Dace 12ozs
Tench 9lb
Bream 10lb
Crucian Carp 2lb 8ozs
Grayling 2lb

NASA has a qualifying list, as do most of the individual specimen groups.
But many of these groups have access to waters (fish-ins) which hold large fish of the desired species.
Thus the qualifying weight is high.
I tried to base my list on waters avalliable to anyone.
As already expressed the specimen group is there to help, it's not about the largest fish, although there will be oppertunities to improve your own personal best.
What I would like to see from this group is a broad spectrum of abilities and knowledge that can learn from each other and as a result catch a few decent fish.






Bob

[clive]

Hi Loki, sure, I can see your point but I think we fall somewhere in between, it would be nice to know if the fish you've caught is of specimen size, but that doesn't mean if its only a 3lb tench its not worth anything. It could be the new rig you're trying or a new bait, perhaps learnt from a fellow member, and hopefully, this will lead to bigger and better fish of specimen size with time.
As far as core aims, the group decided that we want a very open forum. Everyone sharing info with all the other members and above all to enjoy ourselves!
When you say your angling ability is not up to scratch, aside from a select few, I imagine we're all the same. But, we all want to learn...different set-ups, different tactics and different species, maybe letting us become better all-round anglers. Gonna get your application in now?

Clive

[scorpio]

Mike,

I suppose really a specimen can be any size of fish. It all depends on where you catch it from, an 8lb bream from the thames is as good as a double from many a lake. I suppose a 20lb carp from one water would be as good as a 40 from another so to be honest the word specimen maybe should be kept to personal goals. I would regard a 20lb carp as a specimen for myself as I do not target Carp but I wouldn't regard a roach under 2 and a half pounds a specimen where some would regard a 2lb roach a specimen. Horses for courses maybe.

Tony

[Rivercarper]

I would reguard a 2 1/2lb roach as a specimen and a 2lb one as live bait.

[starman]

Nelly we will make you a cat angler yet

[rhornegold]

Tony,
Come on then where's all these 2lb Roach, give us some clues.
I would suggest 2lb Roach and Rudd are very rare in this age of cormorants devastation.
There was a time when a 2lb Roach would have be regarded as a specimen and a 21/2 lb fish very notable.
In the 60s I caught hundreds of 2s from the King George Res. at Chingford, but over the last 10years up until fishing was banned I caught no Roach of any size.
In fact due to the cormorants they stock only Trout above 3lbs at Walthamstow.
We may well have to set a specimen weight per species, but purely as a guide.

[scorpio]

Bob,

I have not fished specifically for roach for 5 years but I had them from the Thames at Oxford, the Thames wiers, River Lea, Roding, Kennet, Avon and even had 2 from Shepperton. I have had 4 Roach in my fishing life over 2 1/2 lb and the biggest from The River Roding at 3 lb 2oz.

Admittedly the lakes have taken a bashing from the Cormerants but I don't think the rivers have as much.

I think that Cormerants should be culled, but that is my opinion, as we all know all animals have to feed to survive and unfortunately the sea has been raped by comercial fishing so the Comerants move inland.

Tony

[rhornegold]

Tony,
The Roding has always held good fish, but I never thought it held Roach to that size.
For 25 years I have lived within 5mins of the river, unfortunately it does suffer from pollution of off the M25.
Are you talking about the Ongar end or the Ilford section?
As for the Lee I counted 40 cormorants perched on the railings at Fields Weir one morning and you would be hard pressed to find any silver fish in this section.
Most of the smaller species are hiding under bridges, up pipes and in the thickest ot tree cover.

[scorpio]

Bob, I am not sure what stretch it was, it was a leisure sport stretch and I fished it quite a few times but only had quality roach there on 2 occasions. I did have 4 roach over 2lb from there including the 3lb 2oz specimen. I had another at 2lb 11oz if I remember rightly, I will have to check my angling logs.

I wonder if there is anything that can be done about the Cormerants? I will post a thread up just for this subject I think and see what peoples ideas are.

Tony

[rhornegold]

fisher-of carp,
What a shame it has been closed to us all, sure it was large and could be very difficult at times.
I may be a sceptic but was it not about large numbers of fish avaliable for restocking, rather than health and safety concerns.
The K G held huge numbers of specimen Roach, Perch, Bream and Pike in the 50/60s.
2lb Roach were the average size, as were the Perch, unfortunately after the first big Perch kill the fishing changed .
The carp were stocked and we all know how that has ended.
On the very last day it was leagally fishable I managed to catch an 11lb 8ozs Bream, hopefully there may be a reprieve for this great water.
But dont hold your breath.